In this episode of The World's Great Doctors, Gloryren invited Prof. Herbort for a special interview. Prof. Herbort is currently a Senior Specialist in Knee Surgery and Sports Medicine at Orthop?dische Chirurgie München (OCM) and also one of its shareholders. He is internationally recognized for his expertise in the treatment of sports-related injuries. Prof. Herbort has performed surgeries for numerous prominent figures, including statesmen and national athletes in Germany. In 2019, he operated on Lucas Hernandez, the most expensive football star at Bayern Munich Football Club. His professional skills and exceptional reputation attract patients from far and wide. Prof. Herbort performs over 1,000 sports medicine surgeries each year. He believes that sports medicine is a very interesting and dynamic field that makes people have a strong internal drive to strive for perfection and continuous improvement, much like athletes, which is very suitable for young doctors.

1. Could you please give us a short introduction of the hospital OCM, about its development in history and its case load.

Okay, yeah. First of all it is a really great honor to do this interview with you. I'm really honored about that. My name is Mirco Herbort and I'm working since nearly six years now in the OCM clinic. So that means it's the Orthopedic Surgery Clinic Munich and we are a private clinic, so there are nine doctors. 

So one of these doctors I am and we are the owner of this private clinic, and yeah, although it's just like maybe like a small practice and private clinic, I think we are really busy and we are doing around approximately 14,500 operations per year and we do all our operations in the whole field of Orthopedics. 

So everybody of us is the owner of the clinic so that we are the leading doctors of this clinic and everybody of us is very highly specialized in one topic, in the field of Orthopedics. So I am specialized, for example, in Knee Surgery and Sports Traumatology and then we have some Spine surgeons, we have Shoulder surgeons, we have Hand surgeons, Arthroplasty surgeons, Hip and Trauma. 

So every field what you can see, what you can search in the Orthopedic area we have a specialization and there one colleague of us is really specialized in this and together we can do everything in Orthopedic surgery and yeah at the end, so we do around 14,000 to 15,000 operations per year.

2. So you mainly focus on Knee Surgery and Sports Traumatology, what would be your personal annual case load on this?

Yeah, so I'm quite active with Sports Medicine, so approximately I do around 1000 operations per year. And yeah, my main topic is the ACL. I love to do ligament surgery and approximately I do around 400 ACL reconstructions per year. But pretty often, this is not like an isolated ACL, so pretty often I see a lot of this complex trauma patients from big area around in Germany and in different countries then pretty often I do like ACL together with an MCL reconstruction or some other anterolateral/anteromedial reconstruction techniques.

3. As we already know, you are an internationally renowned specialist in treating sports injury. Could you please list some of the top athletes you have ever treated and please share with us how did you find the path to this medical career?

Yeah, so now I'm really busy in soccer, because soccer is a very important topic in sports and at least there is a lot of money in this area. So therefore it's pretty important to treat this patient pretty well and there's like a big interest in the world in these sports guys. So therefore I pretty often do some surgery on these players. For example, some months ago, I did an ACL reconstruction of the national team player of the German team. Unfortunately it was not fast enough. So for him that he can’t be part of the Europe championship now which will take place in 10 days now here in Germany. So he's very sad about that but, he's doing pretty well. So I did operation on Lucas Hernández together with my really good friend and colleague, Christian Fink in Austria.This was a very special operation because he was the most expensive player which was bought by Bayern München, our local club here in Munich. And yeah, it was pretty expensive, a little bit less than 100 million Euros for him and we have to fix him. So this is like a special situation for us, but he did well. He's getting champion for the European championships and so I think he's pretty happy with that. So, but yeah, at the end, sometimes you start with a business and then you get the first professional sports guy and you have to do your work pretty well. And then, yeah, this is a business where all of them, they are talking to each other and then it's getting pretty quick that the other comes and then you get like a situation, you get a position in this area and then one player is coming after the other. But it's, it's very stressing. But it makes a lot of fun and it's a great honor for me that I can do these operations and they have the trust in my work.

4. At what time point did you start seeing Sports Medicine as something you could be really great at?

Yeah, at the beginning I was really interested in Orthopedics because I was sportive and active in my free time. So therefore I was interested in Orthopedics and I started to do a PhD thesis in Orthopedics but then my mentor run away. So he moved to Spain and I had to stop my thesis and then I was searching for a new topic for my M.D. thesis and then I found the University Clinic of Munster, the Trauma Department and Wolf Petersen. And so he started at this time, working there as a consultant and yeah, he was doing my mentor in this time. And then I was not really interested in research before, I just was a medical student, but then I found really fun and interest in research. And we had a great group. It was a big, really good team. And then I was getting more and more interested in this research field. And I did my first presentation. I was really happy with this research stuff and therefore I was really excited in this doing research and this was the beginning of my career in Sports Med. And then yeah, at the end from research, I came to clinical cases and then I did the first sports professional sports guy. And then at the end I'm sitting here and I'm really happy and proud to be part of a big sports medicine family. We are working all together and we have the opportunity to treat a lot of  professional sports guys.

5. What kind of features do you think that make Sports Medicine so interesting for the young medical talents?

Okay, yeah, so I think the whole field is very interesting. Sports Med is a very modern topic. Because if you just have a look what we did, like ten years, fifteen years ago in Sports Med, it's quite different. I think we are learning every five years. We are learning a lot about new anatomical stuff. In the knee joint, for example, we are learning more about the structures and definitely we are learning more new things about to treat patients and at the end, I think we have a high motivation that we want to be the best, like the sports guys. And this is something that gives the young doctors a really good feeling that there are on the right way that I can find some new stuff, they can get better. And I think this is something with a good spirit. I would say it's like a good and young spirit and Sports Med. is not like this old traditional medicine. We do everything the same since thirty years. It's a really good spirit and we are very modern and we try to be better every year. So this is I think it's a young spirit and it fits very well with the young students and with the young doctors together.

6. How would you describe the benefits for patients? For example, seeking medical support in such a specialized hospital like OCM?

Yeah, I think this is the future of Sports Medicine, Sports Orthopedics and Orthopedics itself, because the problem is Orthopedics is such a big field and yeah, every day it's growing up and we have more new ideas and everything is improving and this is a problem. So I think that fifty years ago it wasn’t impossible to be a really good orthopedics surgeon in the whole field, but nowadays I think it's absolutely impossible to be an expert in every field of Orthopedics, therefore it makes absolutely sense to going in specialization and although I'm very enthusiastic in Sports Med and I do, yeah, I'm pretty busy and every day is like twelve to thirteen hours I do Sports Med in clinic and in research but at the end it's nearly impossible to be all the time top in the new research topics and everything. So therefore I think it's the only way to get in specialization. Otherwise you can't be a good or maybe the best doctor in any field. You have to specialize yourself.

7. And as a very active expert in the field, we are also very curious about one thing. How could you be able to manage to fulfill all the obligations in the clinic, in teaching and in research?

Yeah, you have to ask my family. That's the biggest problem because on top of that you have to have some free time for your family. But this is my big luck that I have a great wife and very nice children and they wait for me. So this is pretty important otherwise it would be impossible. But on the other side, you are absolutely right, the day has just only 24 hours and yeah, for me the only chance to be active in clinic, to be active in research,this is only possible if you are working in a collaboration with some other guys, with some other doctors and I really like the generation contract. This is something I grew up in my youth, so I was like the young medical student and I started to do research and then I had a mentor. The mentor has really good, really clever ideas like Prof. Petersen and at the beginning I was wondering how can you get this idea so that's brilliant and then I was a working guy in the lab for the research in the robot and now I think I'm growing up and now I'm really focus in clinical stuff and now I have some nice ideas and then I am working with some young doctors, young students together and this is the only way how it goes. So it's like a generation contract and I have more the ideas and the others are sitting in the lab and otherwise it wouldn't be possible. So then we are working together and then it's a win - win situation and this is great. At the end we find some new ideas, we find some new research and this is the only way how it goes because usually it's like 10 to 12 hours like clinical, but then at the end, during the evening, during the night, I'm doing my research, I'm writing manuscripts and papers, but it wouldn't be possible to sit in the lab and do every research by myself. So this is the only way how it goes.

8. Do you have any suggestions to share with us on how to train the young generation to the Chinese chiefs?

Yeah, I think the most important part is just  to open their interest. So this is the most important part. So  I think it's great to have an exchange with the Chinese and the German. We have different cultures but I think everybody can learn from each other and I think you have to start in the students himself. You have to show him the ideas and the clinical setup and everything and then he will get really interested in this topic and then I'm 100% sure that he's motivated to do more research and this is something what I see. My goal is  I would like to have a exchange with the Chinese students, with the young students and young doctors and to give them my enthusiasm about Sports Med. And this is, I think this is the goal. And then the rest of the story is doing by themselves. They will be motivated, they will work. And at the end they will finish their work and together we will do a great research.

9. And looking back to your personal career, what would be your advice to the young sports surgeons for their career?

Don't work too much. This is maybe the biggest fault I did. No, I'm not joking. I'm serious. So I think at the end is try to find your interest and if you are interested in something, if you love your work, You never have to work. Because you love it, you don't have to get punished to go to work, to get punished to write a paper or a manuscript if you like it. If you love it, then it's so easy. And this is something what I found in Sports Med. But at the end don't forget your family. Don't forget your daily business. So this is something that there's a big risk in medicine, because make so much fun and you are so big involved in this topic and that's great, that's perfect. This should be your goal. But at the end don't forget your family and don't forget your free time and your time for yourself.

10. And we were just talking about the work-life balance. And this balance between family and work is also one of your suggestions to the young surgeons. Is there any tricks you would like to share with us on this?

Yeah, there is one trick. So the trick is it's pretty important that you are happy what you are doing and I think if you love your job, you never have to work. So this is something I've learned in my life that makes it very easy. You never look on your watch and you're waiting for the end of your work because you love it and if you love your work, sometimes or pretty often, maybe you come home and you are tired but you are lucky and then you come back to your family and then you are a good father, you are a good husband and then at the end it's pretty important you are in a good mood when you come home but then you have to stop thinking about your work. For my situation, it's not easy because I'm always get some WhatsApp messages by some professional sports guys, by the physiotherapist and everything. But at the end we have a rule. I have to stop phoning. I have to stop messaging when I play with the kids and this is pretty important. So they know their father is pretty, pretty often at work. But when he comes home, he just with the kids and he's playing with them. And then he try to forget his work. And I think this is pretty important for your balance between your work and your private behavior and your family.

11. So, Prof. Herbort, in 2022 you had your first MD student from China. What's your training plan on him? And will he get his degree as planned this year?

Yes, he's good in track, so he's doing a great work. So he started in the University Clinic in Muenster, in the biomechanical lab. This is a lab where I grow up and yeah, he did a great biomechanical study about the PCL and the different fibers and fiber behaviors and he finished already the biomechanical set up and now he's with me here in the OCM clinic and he's doing clinical studies and clinical research and yeah, he did a great job about the slope corrections, osteotomy and he's following my patients and we do another topic about MCL reconstruction. So this is another big clinical topic of my research team. And, yeah, and he's nearly finalizing that. And I think at the end of this year, he will finally, he will get his thesis, he will finish that and with really good success.

12. Thank you very much for sharing this with us. And here comes another small personal question. What are your hobbies during your very little free time?

This is a big problem, I had a lot of hobbies, so my personal, my private life started quite different in music so I wanted to be a professional drummer and I played in a band. I started with the age of five and  we are doing music. I was ten years old and we played in big halls with more than 5000 people like rock and roll music and yeah I wanted to get professional drummer and wanted to study drums and piano and music. So this was my first life and now I started again to play drums and we built up arthroscopy band. So once again I bring like a sports medicine and my hobby like doing music together and playing drums and we have a really nice band and all of them there are great professionals. So a lot of professors in Sports Med and always on the AGA meeting. It's a German speaking arthroscopy meeting. It's the biggest, biggest society in Europe and we have a big meeting every year 1500 people on the festival  in the evening. We always play with our band and  next year we have four or five gigs in Europe and always on some orthopedic meetings, so we pretty often play with our band. This is one part the music and it's the music is back in my life in the free time and the other side is sports. So it's pretty important for me. I'm getting really tired and I'm not in a good mood if I can't do sports. But this is something now I start doing a Peloton, I'm sitting on the bike early in the morning at five o'clock till five thirty. So this is the only time period I have I can take time for sports, at the end I'm happy. I do like thirty minutes in the morning before going to clinic but at the end it's a little bit less time to sleep, but it's fine.